Do you agree with ScifiBoy (and other Republicans) theory that jobs are created by the rich?
Here was the original question that scifiboy responded to: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101215043327AA7Qenr
His answer in part was: "Who creates more jobs in the United States? the poor or middle class–or the rich."
According to the Small Business Association (SBA), Scifi is wrong in assuming it is the rich that create jobs. It is, as anyone with a computer can tell you, the middle class.
"What is a small business?
The Office of Advocacy defines a small business as an independent business having fewer than 500 employees."
[this is not the rich-these are middle class business owners making less than $250,000 per year]
"Small firms:
• Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
• Employ half of all private sector employees.
• Pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
• Generated 65 percent of net new jobs over the past 17 years.
• Create more than half of the nonfarm private GDP.
• Hire 43 percent of high tech workers (scientists, engineers, computer programmers, and others).
• Are 52 percent home-based and 2 percent franchises."
AGAIN:
"Small firms accounted for 65 percent (or 9.8 million) of the 15 million net new jobs created between 1993 and 2009."
What about the tax rates?
"Of the 15.5 million individuals whose primary occupation was self-employment (incorporated and unincorporated), the median personal marginal federal tax rate was 10 percent in 2008. Only 4.1 percent of the self-employed were in the marginal tax bracket of 33 percent or more."
So, in trying to protect the upper tax bracket, ScifiBoy and the Republicans are protecting the 4.1% of what the SBA considers to be a small business, at the expense of the deficit.
Do you agree with the SBA or with Scifi Boy?
http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf
Disclaimer: ScifiBoy is a YA contributor. While I disagree with him on mostly everything (because he cannot defend his aspersions with facts or citations) I will defend to the death his right to say them.
@TAT: You would be more believable if you cited places you got your numbers from. I have to assume you made them up, and here is why:
CLAIM:"most small business owners … make more than 250 thousand."
FACT: "The average small business owner or chief executive brings home an annual salary of $233,600". http://www.zdnet.com/blog/itfacts/average-small-business-owner-salary-is-233600/11901
CLAIM: "a teacher married to a fire fighter living in NYC makes more than 250,000 a year."
FACT: "Firefighter Salary: AFTER 5 YEARS $76,488 http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/community/ff_salary_benefits_080106.shtml
FACT: "New York City Department of Education High School Teacher $60,692" http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=New_York_City_Department_of_Education/Salary
@Mr Sarcasm: You ignore the entire premise of the question, which is WHO DOES THE HIRING?
And, unless you completely ignored the facts as put out by the SBA, you would see that "Only 4.1 percent of the self-employed were in the marginal tax bracket of 33 percent or more."
Simple math shows that 95.9% are in the tax bracket of the middle class or lower.
But you are fighting for the 4.1%.
No, jobs are created by consumer spending.
No, jobs are created by consumer spending.
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The RICH write those slick right wing lies for FOX FAKE "News" which ScifiBoy (and other Republicans) love to suck up like sweet sweet hog swill. Cons are so easy to fool – a little hate, a littel racism, a little Jesus, a little self-righteous right wing fake anger…. you got them voting republican.
don’t try to confuse these guys with the facts! It isn’t going to work. Right wing America is Stupid and damned proud of it.
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define rich…
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What you fail to understand, is that most small business owners file personal income tax and make more than 250 thousand. You also fail to understand that a teacher married to a fire fighter living in NYC makes more than 250,000 a year.
Obama wants to raise income tax rates on individuals making more than $200,000 and joint filers making $250,000 and up. That would affect 3% of all taxpayers who report business profits (known as "net positive business income") on their individual tax returns, according to estimates by the Joint Committee on Taxation, the tax gurus on Capitol Hill.
All told, we’re talking about approximately 750,000 individuals.
How much small business income does that small minority generate?
Next year, an estimated 50% of all business income reported on individual returns will be generated by that small minority of taxpayers who file at the top two rates, the JCT estimates.
That comes out to nearly $500 billion
In the Rules for Radicals it states the importance of getting the poor and middle class to hate the rich. I think Obama is doing a great job at that
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If a company has 250 employees (taking half of the 500 as defined as a small business), how much would the payroll be?
If we estimate they make only $30,000 apiece and there’s $10,000 in benefits, we find that it would take $10,000,000 (10 million dollars) in revenue just to cover annual payroll.
Does that sound like it might be owned by someone in the middle class?
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My experience with working with small business owners I have never know one who personally made more than $200,000. I woked as a business consultant for many years and have consulted for many business owners. I have seen the houses of many of them, have seen the cars they drive, clothes they wear and what financial concerns they had (granted, I did not know the details of their incomes but by their trappings I have an idea… and my figure of $200K is very generous). The average small business owners are not Donald Trump or even as well-off as a plastic surgeon in Palm Springs.
This idea that the rich creates jobs is a myth. Some do but the vast majority of small businesses are not in the upper income bracket. Most people in the upper income bracket work for corporations or commision based employers… our economy is just not driven by wealthy tycoons, it is driven by corporations. Pure and simple. Corporations are not owned by "rich people" they are owned by stockholders and the employment decisions are made by a board based on needs of the corporation… a board member might be a "rich person" but his salary is paid by the stockholders so his decision for employing people is not based on his personal income or personal income tax rates. His personal fortune is separate from the corporation that he works for.
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Small businesses have always created the jobs because they create the market and hire. Big businesses buy the small businesses and lay-off or fire employees to make more money.
Small businesses also tend to keep their employees during rough times because they do not have massive "Personnel" offices and when they find a good worker for a job they hang on to them even when times are rough.
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AFTER 5 YEARS
$76,488base
$22,616fringe
$99,104 total
That is for 5 years, the high is much more… 161K
the Teacher figures are a median… the low is 45K, the high is 100K…
The claim does not mention length of time, just that it does happen… and it does.
Low balling is disingenuous, as would be taking only the high numbers… but ignoring either is pure agenda based spin.
References :
http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/72DE1FF1-EDFC-40D7-9D61-831014B39D1E/0/TeacherSalarySchedule20083.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/community/ff_salary_benefits_080106.shtml
they sure aren’t created by the poor, stupid, or addicted to government.
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What exactly do you all think the ultra-rich do with their money? Do you picture them sitting on pile of coins in a bank vault tossing them in the air and swimming through them!! The invest the money, and they SPEND the money on decadent things like yatchs, and luxury cars, and fancy homes. And to some extent they create jobs directly in their corporations.
But it is through investing and spending that they ENABLE the middle class entreprenures to create jobs directly. Every time they invest money, some bunch of people get or can hang onto their businesses and jobs. Every time they buy something extravagent small companies cash in and citizens get work or stay employed.
You have to be daft to belive that the middle class small businesses could support themselves by catering to one another and the "po’ folks". Class warfare, simple class warfare.
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.. ah , but it is the rich that the middle class borrow thier money from to start thier businesses.
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Jobs are created through supply and demand not the rich but the needy
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